does Hoppy Heidelberg have to say about this? If you've read my
previous posts or kept up with this bombing through other
sources, you know that Hoppy was the original foreman of the
grand jury that eventually indicted McVeigh and Nichols. You can
read a really good interview with Hoppy at:
Hoppy has this to say in that interview:
"Q: Let's talk about Michael Fortier, McVeigh's friend. At first when the FBI questioned he said McVeigh would never have blown-up the federal building and killed all those people. He said all the FBI had on McVeigh was his arrest for a traffic violation and a concealed weapons charge. Then a couple of months later he's saying that he and McVeigh actually went to
OKC and cased the federal building with an eye to bombing it. What's going on here?
A: No. You're off base on that.
Q: You mean on Fortier's confession? He's confessed to being a participant in the bombing.
A: That's not it.
Q: I don't understand.
A: Let me put it this way, if I had been Fortier's attorney, he would have walked. He wouldn't have given a statement and he would have walked.
Q: That's pretty strong.
A: There's a lot you need to know about Fortier.
Q: In the Media Bypass article, you said he was just a kid and the FBI put a big scare into him.
A: Tremendous pressure. They brought 24 hour-a-day pressure on him for several months at great expense. They were on him at his job in Kingman, AZ., and because of that he was fired. They were on him at his home at his trailer, too.
Q: That much?
A: Do you see?
Q: Well, I know there was a weapons charge they were threatening Fortier with, and I believe they also said they'd put his wife in jail if he didn't cooperate.
A: It has to do with the sheer amount of pressure over that period of time.
Q: Wearing him down.
A: He had no attorney.
Q: Are you serious?
A: For that whole period. And he wasn't under arrest either.
Q: That's -
A: He was pressured for 24 hours a day and he had no attorney. He's a kid. He's not smart enough to understand what's going on.
Q: Not smart enough -
A: To realize the FBI had nothing on him. He had no one to advise him.
Q: The FBI couldn't arrest him?
A: They didn't want to arrest him.
Q: Why not?
A: Because if they did, they'd have to appoint a lawyer for him. It was months before he was arrested.
Q: I'm digesting this. It's very bizarre.
A: He got conned.
Q: But eventually he did give them what they wanted. He confessed to being involved in the crime with McVeigh.
A: You're missing it.
Q: Well, if he hasn't made an outright confession -
A: Let me ask you something. What's the fastest way to get from Kingman, AZ., to Southern Kansas?
Q: I have no idea. If Fortier and McVeigh were traveling from Kingman to Southern Kansas....
A: They'd go through OKC.
Q: Oh. Fortier just told the FBI they had been in OKC on their way to Kansas? That's all? He didn't say they were casing the federal building?
A: You're warmer.
Q: Well, all right. If Fortier never told the FBI they cased the building...
A: It's somewhere in between.
Q: In between? You mean, it's between they were just passing through OKC and they were casing the building?
A: You're warmer.
Q: Fortier told the FBI they were in OKC on the way to Kansas and they went by the federal building, and they looked at it. Something like that.
A: Something like that.
Q: And there was never a real admission about planning to blow up the building.
A: You need to read Fortier's confession. It was printed in the Daily Oklahoman.
Q: Fortier, the prosecution's big witness, never confessed. Is that what you're saying? Not even close?
A: Not even close.
Q: But the prosecution didn't need him to gain an indictment against McVeigh.
A: They want Fortier as a witness in the actual trial. Big time. But if his statement is so far south of being a confession, then they can't really use him at the trial.
Q: No they can use him. What he has to say won't make an impression on some jurors, but it could tip the scales for other more gullible jurors. The FBI spent all this time pressuring the hell out of Fortier.
A: That's very important because you see, obviously that was the best they could do. They stayed with him so long because they had nothing better. Fortier's involvement in the bombing was so minimal it was a waste of time. If I was the FBI man in charge, I would have made one run at Fortier and then forgotten all about him.
Q: So in other words, he never confessed to casing the building with McVeigh.
A: The media has completely exaggerated it. Fortier and McVeigh were driving through OKC on the way to Kansas and they passed by the federal building. Something like that.
Q: And the media stretched that.
A: Something like that.
Q: And the FBI spent so much time pressuring Fortier to link McVeigh to the bombing because they had nothing better.
A: They had nothing better.
Q: But you feel McVeigh is linked to the bombing.
A: Yes, I do. But the FBI relied on a man, Fortier, who really couldn't provide anything important to them. You need to remember that. That's important. There's more to this." *End*
Why did Terry Nichols turn himself in to police and give detailed statements to the FBI without an attorney present? He sees his name out on the television set and goes in to set the record straight. If you were responsible for this heinous crime, would you hang around your farm house and then go turn yourself in for questioning? I guess if you're really dumb.